Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Join Roman and Simon as we do our best to test the listings made by Kerr and later by Chan. What has been missed? Which overprints have been assigned to the wrong towns? What is genuine and what is suspect? - You get the idea......

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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by admin » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:22 pm

For those of you who are wondering, this is Kerr (Mukden) 148.55-81, Chan MLO24 AIc.1-27 or Luzitano FT1. Kerr lists this as a soft black overprint (it looks hard and sharp to me).

Roman's grid makes me wonder, could even the most careful employee could have achieved this accuracy with a setsquare and handstamp? The inking is also too regular for a stamp and stamppad.

How were they produced - any thoughts?

Not so regular with booklet panes though - definately hand chopped.
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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by Roman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:25 pm

In a doubt you can try it by yourself on with a chop on paper with a grid. I believe with some training, some stuff for the alignment (like a wood block) and not in rush you can get such a good results. If you look at the sheet parts you can also always see some outliers where the overprint varies in placement or orientation. If you assume a kind of overprint device were used this shouldn't happen, for a moment of in a lacking in concentration this is normal.

But bringing a booklet pane is a good move. I have few for this issue. Some like yours bit untidily, some are very accurate (I add an example). Just a long shot, but for the overprints could be also a wooden raster in use. The staff just chop in the free square and always get a very accurate overprint but the few overprints which mess with placement or orientation speaks against this theory. If we put all overprints (spacing / orientation) in a relation to each other we might be able to deepen or dismiss this idea (but here we need two sheets or luck if they used a smaller raster). :)
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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by doc032848 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:45 am

Roman,

Suppose the wooden frame were raised a bit above the sheet with notches for the overprinting set up to snap into, before the chop(s) were rocked downward to the sheet. If that is the case then it could be at one place on the frame a repair had to be made, forcing the device into a new higher notch? Then one of more overprints would be out of line.
You still have your frame, and we explained one abnormality.

What do you think?

George

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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by Roman » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:19 am

George,

yes, what you said could be very possible.

If we one day get a complete sheet or larger units we may able to prove this idea! :)

Roman

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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by doc032848 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 pm

Romanb,

I quite agree!

Let me see which piece I have that is largest. I have seen as big as 64 pieces of 100 I believe.

Whether we can prove how it was done would be great.

But the fact that there are many more sets than Williams would ever list is clear. The booklets you and Simon have shown are both different and would be put into 148.28-54 & booklets.

George

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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by admin » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:40 am

For anyone who wonders about the set FT25 I have made an image showing the set with all of the inverted stamps - enjoy.
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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by Roman » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:21 pm

Very nice album page! But for myself I really don't think the inverted overprints happen by accident, they were produced for the demand of collectors.

Does these stamps exists inverted on covers?

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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by doc032848 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:44 am

Roman,

These specific wood chops do not exist on covers so far at all.

I have another Mukden city woodchop that is much harder to find that exists on cover, and offered $750+ to buy it, and
another collector bid higher! It was back stamped as received in Tientsin.
In short, I don't even know if I can prove this set, long assumed to be the wood chop from Mukden, was even in the Dongbei at any time.
But even if we find a normal cover with one or several on it, I agree the inverts are purely philatelic at best.
Have you seen many Mukden collections and covers?
Anything would help I am fairly certain.

George

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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by admin » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:09 pm

I view this set as a curiosity and of no realistic philatelic importance. I like to have copies of the sets listed by Kerr.

The Post Offices needed funds to pay workers, buy supplies, etc., so I think it is possible that they did a deal with a stamp dealer who probably paid the face value of the stamps and could say which way up he wanted the overprints.

Here is a thought - what pillock (you might have to look that one up Roman) designed these stamps? He could have come up with a better design. The stamps of Manchukuo did not have a name of origin, just the orchid crest. The design of these overprints, instead of defacing it, highlights it - very odd!

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Re: Kerr 148.28a - 54a (FT25) Why so many inverted overprints?

Post by doc032848 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:26 am

Simon,

I like your points!! Perhaps it recalls for you what it does for me.
It reminds me of the scene in The Last Emperor where the Fushun prison guard visits Puyi, Puchieh, and their room mates to tell Puyi that he knows why Puyi is not pissing against the side of the can at night, and that he was to do so from then on!
It is one of my favorite scenes.
Toward the end of the movie we see the same guard in a tall cap being "struggled against" by the Red Guard, and Puyi objects, only to be dragged away. He sees big pictures of Chairman Mao, like Huangdi everywhere!

:o :o

George

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