What is it? Item 1

Join Roman and Simon as we do our best to test the listings made by Kerr and later by Chan. What has been missed? Which overprints have been assigned to the wrong towns? What is genuine and what is suspect? - You get the idea......

Moderators: archiem, doc032848, wlin98004

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Rural Sussex, England
Contact:

What is it? Item 1

Post by admin » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:29 am

Here is a stamp not found in Kerr or Chan. It looks like it has a 通化 Tonghua cancel and a rather odd date. The surcharge looks like 3f on a 2f stamp with the usual "temporary use".

What is it?
Attachments
UnidentifiedMLO3fOn2f.jpg
UnidentifiedMLO3fOn2f.jpg (158.02 KiB) Viewed 523 times

User avatar
Roman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:20 am

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by Roman » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:15 pm

Do you possible can get a better scan?

doc032848
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by doc032848 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:58 pm

Simon,

I have never seen this.

The dater looks like it is in Dido dating. I have seen MLO covers (2 in all) with the number "1" for the year, indicating either the year of liberation from the Japanese.
Some places in the DPRK used number 2 for year of liberation. "2" =1946.

I am hard pressed to say the overprint is MLO as the first issue of T'unh-hua city was a Mukden "cruciform" type.

George

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Rural Sussex, England
Contact:

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by admin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:37 am

Here is an image scanned at 1200dpi (the best my scanner can do). What you see is a thumbnail so if you copy it to your desktop you will see the full size.

Perhaps it need a little Photoshop magic to reveal its secrets.
Attachments
TongHuaBetterImage.jpg
TongHuaBetterImage.jpg (592.11 KiB) Viewed 514 times

User avatar
Roman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:20 am

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by Roman » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:31 am

Thank you. I really think you need a new scanner... ;)

I will try to find out more about your overprint in China.

User avatar
Roman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:20 am

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by Roman » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 am

The Chinese experts told me the cancel date is 1940 (1933+7) and the stamp is bogus / fake surcharge

Base on the cancel date this stamp has nothing to do with MLO and for Manchuria such overprints are unknown.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Rural Sussex, England
Contact:

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by admin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:45 am

I know the cancel date is 1940. This is kang-teh dating.

It seems to me an odd thing to do, if you are going to the trouble of making a forgery to put it on a stamp with an impossible cancel. This does not rule out a fake overprint, lots of those about, it just seems stupidly self defeating.

My view is that it is more likely a dater that is meant to read 1936 + 11 = 1947 (left to right). That is why it shows the six, the three may have been broken.

When you looked at the postmark, do you agree 通化

User avatar
Roman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:20 am

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by Roman » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:37 pm

1947 is not possible, Tonghua (here I agree with you about the cancel) start to issue his own stamps (the famous Tonghua Mao issue) in August 1946. At that time the smallest denomination was already $2 (up $100 for the later issued overprinted stamps in 1947).

I also have a couple of not listed stamps where everyone would be asking "why?" and "for what?" ... if we come back to 1940 (where at least the denomination makes some sense) there was for my understanding no local overprint in Tonghua issued.

We need to find some stamps from Tonghua used in 1940 to check if the cancel is genuine at first place I would suggest.

doc032848
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by doc032848 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:08 am

Simon,

Roman is correct about the currency problem. By 1947 the GMD was well on its way to totally wrecking the economy of China. Suzanne Pepper has an good chapter on it in her Civil War in China.
I have a book in Chinese that shows the currency of the Liberated Areas, including Dongbei. I have never seen another one outside of China. It cost me a fortune when I bought it, or at least a fortune to me.
I believe Tonghua used NE Currency. Yen-pien used Jidong Currency, and NE Currency.
If we knew what currency the surcharge was in, we could see if there was any currency at all in the Dongbei that could have been exchanged or been equivalent to one of the currencies in use.
Like Roman, I do not believe so. But that assessment is based on consistency with what we know.
In over 62 years of collecting China, I am acutely aware that the line from Hoelderlin's Hyperion that "the goddess of truth abhors untimely growth," is sooth!

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Rural Sussex, England
Contact:

Re: What is it? Item 1

Post by admin » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:51 pm

I am convinced - we will call this one a fake.

But you know what they say - you have to kiss a lot of Princesses before you find a frog (more sooth).

Post Reply